| Author | Message | ||
  Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 628 Registered: 8-2006 |
Snow, we're just having fun with the uniquely human trait of being able to communicate with complex systems of written symbols. No divine revelation on this board -- it's already been done!  http://www.amazon.com/Watercolor-Bible-Painters-Complete-Guide/dp/1581806485 | ||
Snowman New member Username: Snowman Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2008 |
Wow, it's as if this forum is trying to understand/define the very nuances that attract those to this medium.....is that even possible? I suppose there might be a modicum of personal validation gained in attempting such an endeavor, but I fear it may be as elusive as communicating sacred revelation/truth. Just a thought. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 627 Registered: 8-2006 |
Dee, that is indeed "it" ("so," "true," whatever -- it sometimes hard to know exactly what the French mean! All we are saying is that "it" is helpful to have the skill (or the sense) of making use of something that occurs in your painting process that you didn't originally intend or plan. | ||
Deecubed Junior Member Username: Deecubed Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2007 |
Instead of saying "good" or "bad," why not "unintended," rather than "intended"? Good/bad lays such a value judgment on something that is just "different." N'est ce pas? | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Eugene: “The skill is knowing how to make something good when you do something accidentally bad.” You’ve beautifully summed up what Griz and I have been unable to put into cogent terms. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 463 Registered: 8-2006 |
I've had a lot of unhappy accidents, but seldom happy ones. The skill is knowing how to make something good when you do something accidentally bad. some guys seem to have that special knack. backwashes occur when you add wet pigment to half dry washes. with practice, you can achieve a certain amount of control. , but there's always that element of surprise | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Griz, very true! I know you and I are in agreement (I aXXume we are) about this idea of the so called watercolor accidents that give pleasing results, but I sometimes wonder if all watercolor artists understand what we have been talking about here. It might be worth going into the whole idea of watercolor accidents in greater depth. I say this because a few years ago I came across a lady doing a plein air watercolor painting of a flower in a park. In the short conversation I had with her she told me she was waiting for a “happy accident” to happen. I asked her if she had ever had a happy accident. She replied; “no, but I keep hoping I will someday. I’ll let you start. Please give as detailed a technical description, or descriptions, as you can of happy accidents in the art of watercolor, and state the estimated probability of occurrence. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 620 Registered: 8-2006 |
George, Wyeth's backruns are no accident. It takes terrific control and skill to manage those devilish things, and I seldom even try! If anything, I try to control the water in my brush relative to the water in my paper so those things won't happen. Unintended backruns are the least likely of our watercolor accidents to be pleasing and therefore left uncorrected! Wyeth's managed backruns are a testimony to his artistic skill. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Griz, good post. Recently I saw a painting by Andrew Wyeth that beautifully illustrates the idea that artists should have a sound understanding of the techniques for controlling and utilizing the materials they use. Back runs (sometimes called bloom or cauliflower) are generally considered an accident waiting to happen. But some artists design back runs into their paintings. This requires a great deal of skill on the part of the artist to control the watercolor paint as it is running wildly across the paper. In the painting by Andrew Wyeth the back runs were used to indicate groups of trees on the distant horizon. They were so perfectly formed that from a distance they were the perfect size, shape, value and texture to give the illusion of trees in the distance. I had to walk up close to the painting to see that they were really nothing more than strategically placed and formed back runs. The ability to do this is the ultimate achievement in the art of watercolor. It requires an extremely high level of control but gives the appearance of a loose and spontaneously created watercolor. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 617 Registered: 8-2006 |
George, you rightly point out that watercolors can be and are painted either with a minimum concern for control or a high degree of control. You also rightly note that artists should understand techniques for controlling and utilizing the materials they use. It's not so much that there is a "right" degree of control that should be employed in painting watercolors -- it's just that an essential characteristic of water is that it loves to flow, and sometimes "gets away" from our control creating lovely "accidents," such as dribbles, interesting mingling of colors, etc. in a way oils, especially, do not. Oils as a medium seem to me to lend themselves more easily to tight control than does watercolor -- just like some of Marie's paints lend themselves more to soft edges than do others. I, for one, enjoy this tendency of watercolor to be spontaneous, creating wonderful serendipities for us. Nevertheless, you are right in saying that a good artist can employ either medium with a high degree of control or a minimum of control. It's just easier and more pleasing to me personally to lean toward "looseness" when I work with watercolor. As you say, it is perfectly fine for April to prefer the high degree of control and attention to detail demanded by her realistic style. Go for it, April, but do work on that shadow! | ||
George Unregistered guest |
I suspect the whole idea of “looseness” may be one of the most misunderstood concepts in watercolor. If a person wants to learn music or dance they need to spend a lot of time learning to control their techniques (the goal of tightness) before they attempt to use those techniques to freely express themselves (the goal of looseness). The same is true in watercolor. Your teacher seems confused about this. Griz’s point (correct me if I’m wrong Griz) was something different. His point was that watercolor flows more easily than oil or acrylic and therefore can easily give some very spontaneous (loose looking) results. Because of this characteristic behavior of the paint many watercolor artists (Griz is one of them) believe the watercolor artist should take advantage of it and paint very loose looking paintings. The problem with that kind of thinking (no offense intended here Griz) is that watercolor paint has many other characteristic behaviors that also make it suitable for a tight looking style of painting (tight realism). If you don’t think so then just look at the large percentage of the tight realistic paintings in any national watercolor exhibition. I hope you understand the “tightness” some teachers pitch when they can’t think of anything intelligent to say (for example; explain specific failures in the formal relationships within a painting), and the tight style mentioned by Griz, are two different kinds of tightness. The first is a stiffness between the various parts of the composition. The second is a style that more closely reflects what the eye sees. April, if your personality dictates that you paint with great detail then that is what you must do. | ||
Ahughes798 New member Username: Ahughes798 Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2008 |
Thanks, Grizrev! Did I also mention I like to work small, LOL! My teacher is always on me about the tightness and smallness of my work. I like it. I like doing detail. I also like w/c's that were not fussed over, are loose, and give the impression of great detail. This is totally beyond me, so far. I simply cannot loosen up. I've tried painting loose..and all I ever get is a muddy mess, LOL! April | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 608 Registered: 8-2006 |
April, you have an amazingly technically proficient painting for a third try. However, to be honest, I feel that you have missed the best use of free flowing watercolor in choosing a tight composition of this kind. Oils or acrylics seem to me to be a more appropriate choice. My only other suggestion is that the shadow should be larger and more representative of the overall shape of the pedestal and basin, and yet a little more amorphous. | ||
Ahughes798 New member Username: Ahughes798 Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2008 |
Sorry, I'll try again!  | ||
Ahughes798 New member Username: Ahughes798 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2008 |
Hi, I'm a newbie to watercolour...have been collecting watercolour supplies for 10 years and finally had to take a class to force myself to put brush to paper. I've been watercolouring since 9/07. This is my 3rd painting, and it's still the one I like best. Any ideas? April | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 597 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, I surely hope the Heitland painting goes for that price or more! I have seen so many rather inferior oils priced higher than that level! It is lovely -- captures the idea of conflict in nature so well, with the chaos of the foreground and mid ground flung against the peace of the distant background. It's a picture of a temporal disaster contained in the larger context of hope. That's a good message to contemplate at this point in time. | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 369 Registered: 10-2006 |
The Heitland painting gives you a sense of ownership of the space. I can feel the atmosphere. Thank you Maidensmith, hope you find time to check in more often. Eugene, maybe your phone call will inspire Phil Jamison to pick up the brush again. | ||
Maidensmith Member Username: Maidensmith Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, your paintings are great - but the one with the dog just steals my heart. It looks so much like my dog who is getting older every day. As someone said you have captured the spirit of my dog, too. Whitewatercolor, I really enjoy your paintings - they are so full of life and color. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 452 Registered: 8-2006 |
Griz, full sheet, $1,200. firm. This is a typical Hietland subject. He was a master at finding beauty in ordinary things. price doesn't seem bad for that size painted in 1961, not too long before his death. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 586 Registered: 8-2006 |
Happy 4th everybody! Thank you, Eugene, for posting the Heitland painting! How fortunate for you and Jamison to have had such an able mentor. I'm glad you and Phil had an opportunity to reconnect. I don't think I've ever seen a lovelier view of a disaster! Great use of contrasting values, line and direction! What's the asking price? | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 451 Registered: 8-2006 |
title of painting BOATYARD AFTER THE STORM | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 450 Registered: 8-2006 |
had a long phone conversation with Phil Jamison last night the first I’ve talked to him for a long time.. some things of interest-- someone ask what paper he used-- he’s tried them all, but finally settled on arches, 140# cp, stretched. he hasn’t painted anything for over a year, and maybe will never again. He stopped when he was spending so much time with his wife when she was in a health care facility, and has just never taken up the brush again. This is hard for me to understand, he’s in reasonably good health and is a year younger than I am. Painting is so important to me that I’ll probably be weilding a brush on the way to the crematorium. he has a great art collection and spends a lot of time buying and selling. that’s one reason that I called him, someone contacted me with a Heitland (our teacher and mentor ) watercolor for sale and I thought he might be interested. it was so good to talk to him again. he doesn’t use a computer here’s the Heitland that's for sale===full sheet  | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 368 Registered: 10-2006 |
His writings have a wisdom that bring me back to them in thought. His thoughts go well with painting. We used to have a local writer who wrote these short pieces for the paper (former extension agent) and one day he wrote a piece about the farmers of today. He talked about how when you are out all alone on the tractor you are lost in thought and you continue to follow the subject through insights and solutions until you reach the fence line and have to turn around. He reflected on how managing smaller parcels may be impacting the thought processes of farmers today...hoeing or cutting shorter rows. I know when I was farming I had a lot of time to think and sometimes I would have to run out of the orchard to share a particular insight or though with another human, before I forgot it. I attribute the long hours or prunning, thinning, picking and packing fruit, to enhancing my skills of observation. If we all wrote diaries of our mental wanderings during painting, what an interesting thing that would be. I just can't imagine the mechanism Robert Genn uses to share his insights with us--transferring his thoughts to words and still having time to think them. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 585 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene put me on to Robert Genn, and I signed up for his newsletter just like you have. Don't know anything more than what I have learned about him on his web sites. His demos show his proficiency, and you can read his credentials. | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 367 Registered: 10-2006 |
How did you hear about Robert Genn? His newsletter was recommended to be by a friend, she's sent a couple of issues and I found them interesting, so have signed up. What do you know about him and his work? | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 584 Registered: 8-2006 |
Robert Genn has some interesting thoughts on the intrinsic and enduring value of the art we make: June 27, 2008 Dear Artist, ... While painting, I'm reflecting on the crazy parallel universe of art dealing and art speculation. What has my daily plodding got to do with what happens to the stuff I make? These thoughts have been stimulated by a book I brought with me. The Billionaire's Vinegar by Benjamin Wallace seems to be a metaphor for art's secondary market--art aficionados, collectors, speculators, dealers and the fine-art auction business in particular. The book is about the most expensive bottle of wine ever sold--a 1787 Chateau Lafite Bordeaux, supposedly once the property of Thomas Jefferson when he was a young ambassador in Paris. Found bricked-up in a Paris cellar by a shady German wine merchant and collector, it was sold at Christie's in London in 1985 for $156,000.00. Like a lot of high-priced art, the bottle is essentially undrinkable. A few bottles are actually worth opening. Well-heeled, big buck guys get together for annual "tastings." Some tastings are called "horizontals" --all the wines available from different Chateaux from a certain year. Others are "verticals"--all the wine from a single vineyard for a series of years--say 1804 to 1927. Yep, sets of these old wines can be as*embled by attending auctions and hanging out in the right cellars. In the expensive process of as*embling, and the snobbish business of claiming the better palate, a kind of divine madness overtakes these guys, setting the ground for all sorts of tomfoolery and fakery. Bottles are topped up with younger wines and whole new antique vintages are concocted in found empties. All this has nothing much to do with the wineries. Like artists, the vintners tend to their grapes, protect them from pestilence, oversee timely harvests, take care with pressing and bottling and send them out into the world hoping to make an honest buck. Then, depending on rarity, provenance and perceived quality, the speculation boys take over. Sometimes it takes a hundred years for all the stars to line up. But they do. Plonk or not, it takes these passionate characters to make things happen. Best regards, Robert PS: "You can almost taste the wine that turns so many rational people into madmen." (Buzz Bussinger) Esoterica: In the wine game, most of the tasters spit. Otherwise they'd be drunk as skunks. In the art game, obsolescence isn't as instantaneous. It takes time for art to win palates, and time to devalue as well. While it's okay to think ahead to tomorrow's tastes, and prepare as best you can if you must, the artist's job is to live in the now and to simply strive for maximum quality as he or she sees fit. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 583 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, I think your observation that a degree doesn't make a painter is the basis for Tom Lynch's reservations about formal schooling and professional education. What sells to the "unwashed" public may not be the best standard for evaluating the intrinsic worth of a piece of art (I confess that I find Thomas Kinkade's predictable concoctions a little schlocky and pandering) but there are popular artists of great merit, like Andrew Wyeth, Norman Rockwell and Edward Seago, who have been ignored unjustly by the art "establishment" of their time. Nevertheless, many artists unacclaimed in their own time have generations later been recognized for their merit, while artists popular with the art critics of their time later have fallen into oblivion. There is an operative snob factor in some professional circles that is ridiculous -- someone has to say that the king has no clothes! | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 449 Registered: 8-2006 |
Griz. I never mind comments and critiques. I wouldn't post if I didn't want to hear what you all think.. Bonnie-- you WILL be rejected sometimes, but don't let that stop you. I just had a painting rejected in a local show that was accepted in a national show. In fact, I find that I can be accepted and win prizes in the big show easier than our local shows. I seldom win in our local art a**ociation shows. Locals often use gallery owners, critics, art historians, college professors, etc. for judges, whereas the national shows are almost always judged by successful, practicing artists. My apologies to any college persons who read this. But I know plenty of college art teachers, who have passed the tests, have their degrees, but can't paint wort a Da***! Then too. there are plenty who CAN paint well. Guess what I'm saying, is that a degree doesn't make a painter. Andy Wyeth didn't attend any school, including grade school and high school. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 582 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, my comment on your style indeed was intended as a compliment -- and also an expression of my curiosity about what makes your style unique. I hope you didn't mind my commenting on the two paintings -- I took the topic thread at face value: "Pictures open for critique 2". Bonnie, you are right about our anxiety about being judged -- don't let that keep you from trying to exhibit. I, too, remember that Tom Lynch had some sensitivities about the professional establishment and what they considered commendable art. He said his favorite critics were the buying public! He sells a bunch. Apparently you do as well. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 448 Registered: 8-2006 |
George No paynes Grey-- Ivory Black, burnt sienna and Prussian Blue/ Griz, I take that as a compliment- i think it's important to develope a recognizable style of one's own Bonnie. yes you're ready for the national shows. Start with the closest ones, that you may be able to hand deliver and pick up. And don't be discouraged by rejections. Shipping and handling can be very expensive. Submit work that is DIFFERENT. An ordinary landscape or floral seldom as a chance, no matter how well it is painted. I just had one accepted in the Adirondack International- a big important show in the East. Juror was Frank Webb. I felt it was a good painting, but I'm sure the unusual subject (a barn raising, with almost 50 figures) had a great deal to do with it's being accepted. Also it was a full sheet--big stuff has a better chance. Show doesn't open till August. Judging a show give you recognition, so go for it. Here are some rules I follow when Judging a show------ They a not completely original; I adapted from something I read somewhere TEN THINGS I CONSIDER WHEN JUDGING A SHOW 1. Sound craftsmanship. No sloppy craftsmanship detected. Artist appears to be grounded in accepted means of application, and seems to have knowledge of media. 2. Compositional integrity. A composition that balances internally and "works" 3. Color sensitivity. Appears to have understanding of color choices—complementary, analogous, and sophisticated grays. 4. Creative interest. Subject is creatively different so that it attracts, leads and holds my attention to the artistic and creative elements within the work. 5. Gestural momentum. Brushwork or line-work is often expressive. 6. Artistic flair. Artist does something beyond blind representation. 7. Professional touch. Artist avoids amateur methodology and gives a direct, confident, seasoned look to the work. 8. Surface quality. Up close and personal the surface is intriguing and a joy to see. 9. Intellectual depth. Artist gives me something to think about. —not just a pretty picture. 10. Visual distinction. The art has a look of uniqueness, either with style, subject matter or handling. It looks different from what I've seen before. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Bonnie, I just looked up the Oregon Watercolor Society. They have some very talented people exhibit in their shows, but your paintings are better than many of the works displayed. I think you should judge at the local County Fair. It’ll be a good experience for you. Just remember to put aside any and all personal bias concerning artistic style, the type of paint used or subject matter depicted. That’s where most of the local judges get into trouble. On the local level you’ll find that most of the paintings will eliminate themselves because of obvious errors. To help you judge the better works take a check list along with you to help identify areas to consider in judging. Include things like brushwork, perspective, composition, and personal expression. Write it up any way you like, listing the things you know are important for good art. If you get tied up in indecision just refer to the check list and give the award to the painting with the most points of agreement with the check list. Let us know how it goes. | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 366 Registered: 10-2006 |
I am a partner in an LLC with six other partners, two potters, one metal art, one textile, one who makes handmade cards and aromatheraphy and a jeweler. I've sold hundreds of original paintings. I also sell at a couple of galleries. I sell prints and cards at well known sites in the area. I lead a plein air group every Tuesday. I led a plein air group for the Oregon Watercolor Society's annual meeting this Spring and I've been asked to judge a local County Fair. I have to give them an answer. I don't feel qualified to Judge the fair but I am probably more qualified than Judges they've had in the past and whoever they'll get to Judge if I don't. I do have a market for my work, almost more than I can keep up with. Unfortunately I am not a professional photographer and could do a better job of photographing for the prints. I have a husband who I feel is limited by perfectionism, so I keep that in mind. When I reach a point where I think I've accomplished a level of acceptance, I move on to the next idea. I find it boring to paint something I know I can do from the start. I like to push my comfort zone. I find the simple truth most profound and that may well be what I am striving to reflect in a painting. I know I have a long way to go, if it is even possible. I look at the work Turner left us and can imagine the critic within him. With 32000 works of art, I'm sure his was a path of adventure in art, a path of experimentation and accumulating knowledge. He must have had a healthy approach to handling self criticism. I attended an art opening with Tom Lynch, of his work, and I could feel the pain and anxiety he had about being Judged. That too was a learning experience for me. No painting is ever good enough. Imagine if you were so well known, you could read reviews about your paintings from people who'd never picked up a watercolor brush. The secret to life (and painting) can be summed up in an old Kenny Rogers song...You gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, know when to run. The art to painting and selling your art is not that everyone like it, or anyone like it. It's value lies in some level of emotional truth that reaches out to one other person who has a desire to own it that is equal to the value you place on parting with it. Tough, when we live in a society that it always looking around them for validity. Most people will never own an original piece of art because it leaves their judgment of art open for criticism. A print purchased from wal-mart has already been sanitized. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 581 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, despite the need to roughen the outward flow of the light gray in the upward portion of the chin to indicate stubble, you certainly captivate the Amish personality in the look! Is it the strong but somewhat shy and humble forward thrust of the head and the knowing upward curve of the right side of the mouth? Since they are in shadow, could the subject's eyebrows be just a shade darker, especially since the hair of the beard is so dark? I do feel the strong light in both paintings. The strong value contrast between the boy's light blue shirt and the black of the tree does establish the focal point. I was wondering if the strong light might have illuminated the left side of the tree just a little, giving us a view of some detail instead of limiting us to a completely dark silhouette. Should the boy's hat cast just a little darker shadow? I guess it all depends on whether or not you intended us to imagine the tree and boy in the shadow of an unseen tree, while the light spotlighted the dog. If so, perhaps those two segments of the picture should be contrasted more strongly with one another. Other than the subject matter, I've been trying to puzzle out what gives your paintings such a distinctive "Dale Ziegler" style. We could recognize them anywhere. What is it? The choice of color, the smooth brushwork, what? Bonnie, where have you been showing your paintings? I know some of them have sold -- do you have a venue beyond the internet? Maybe people who have bought have attended shows where they think your paintings would be competitive. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Eugene, work on the chin a little bit more in that one painting, other than that they’re great. Is that Payne’s Gray? Bonnie, Of course George the roster is political - why didn’t I see that? Are you ready for national shows? I don’t know - maybe one of the smaller shows like the Montana watercolor society show. Your paintings are incredibly simple statements in which the details, the design and the message have all been reduced to a singular essence that communicates the thought and emotion behind the work. Obviously, I’m talking about your better paintings. For example; the strong sense of moody nostalgia in your “Winter glow” painting, or the prevailing sense of tension derived from spontaneous linear and value contrasts in your “White Oak” painting. The judges at national shows may well dismiss these paintings as mere greeting card art, rather than see them for what they are - visual haiku. Or, they might accept it as a balance to the showy pretense of creativity, that is in reality little more than copied photographs, found in many of the paintings exhibited at the national shows. Who knows what a judge at a national show will do. How about the county fair? Are you thinking about entering? | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 365 Registered: 10-2006 |
Eugene, the dog in that painting is priceless. You've captured the universal spirit of the dog. In response to comments: Thank you for all the positive comments. I'm pretty far behind on posting on the website (100+). I'll probably have to wait until winter to catch up. I have to say, George is political, and you'll have to guess from there. I don't know if I posted Bill & Hillary on the site or not, but I painted George the same day. After I've painted a chicken or rooster, I sometimes look at them and try to find a name that fits. This one really reminded me of George. Tom Lynch is an exceptional instructor. I recommend him to anyone who asks I teach. I recommend his books and classes. He teaches in Portland, Oregon, once a year. I don't care if you like his paintings. I don't care if you like his personality. I think he is an exceptional instructor. If you don't leave his classroom with a greater understanding of whatever the focus of the lesson is, I'd question your ability to synthesize information. I'm not sure I'm ready for national shows. Anyone ever judged a county fair? | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2006 |
Two recent ones   | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 580 Registered: 8-2006 |
Bonnie, I should have acknowledged that you already had put some nearer trees in your river picture to indicate depth. I was just thinking another tree growing from the rock and silhouetted against the light sky might have been even stronger and also helped draw our eyes to your focal point. Another possibility would be to let the beam of light highlight the right side of the tree you already have growing from the right side of the near rock. You also might strengthen its base with a root or two struggling for a foothold. I love the way you have the sun pulling mist off the water -- again, your mix of soft and hard edges is so good. I did see that you already have a little tree in the left foreground of your lake picture, but it is so small. That might be correct size for the shore, but perhaps a nearer, larger tree intruding into the scene and creating an incident against the bottom edge of the lake shore and sihouetted against the light on the lake might add to the depth as well as interlock the planes. You also seem to have a small distant mountain range -- I just thought it might be a little larger (but very light) to enhance the background. The light is enchanting -- so well done in the sky and in the reflection! | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 579 Registered: 8-2006 |
Bonnie, glad you liked the ideas, including the Tom Lynch beam of light. I did a week long seminar with Tom Lynch several years ago in Salt Lake City -- it was a fun time. I especially enjoyed his encouragement to launch into our paintings with enthusiasm and a sense of freedom, knowing we always could rescue them with techniques he shared with us, including darker values, negative painting, washing out, etc., etc. By the way, you have not only improved -- you have vastly improved! You may not see it as clearly because it is similar to watching your children grow up. Only people who have not seen them in a while are startled by the growth. With George, I am impressed by the volume of your work. I have been told that we only improve by a great desire to keep learning and a will to do the work, painting as much and as often as possible. Hats off to you, Bonnie! | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Bonnie, saying that you’ve been busy is an understatement. I just looked at your website. I hadn’t been there for a long time. If I counted right, there are over 500 paintings posted. If I lived to be a hundred years old I still wouldn’t find time to get that many paintings finished. I have to say, our sense of color is astonishing. Judging from the small number of originals available it seems your paintings must be selling really well. Have you ever entered any of your paintings in the national level watercolor competitions? Oh, and one more question - how’d you happen to come up with the name for “George” the roster? | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 364 Registered: 10-2006 |
Grizrev: Thank you also for your comments. You mention Tom Lynch, did you take classes directly from him? When? Where? Most of my actual hands on instruction is actually from him. You guys are both very kind and generous. It is hard to remember everything and see everything when you are painting alone. It is also rare to find several people who really have the knowledge to provide helpful comments. Referring to your improvement comments. I've probably painted 200+ paintings since the original postings. It is hopeful that you think I'm improving. It is hard for me to see improvement. I don't think it gets easier, I just get bolder. As Cheng-Khee Chee says: "My goal is to do a perfect painting...whatever that is. I'll know when I have it." Or something like that. Knowing it is an impossible goal, keeps my nose to the grindstone. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 578 Registered: 8-2006 |
Bonnie, I can't resist just one more thought. The light on the water in front of the large forward rock in your river painting suggests that a beam of light has overcome the dark shadow of the rock we might expect to see in that part of the painting. Though it seems "gimmicky," Tom Lynch often washes out a beam of light to spotlight such an area and further emphasize that there is such a beam of light in the scene. Whether or not you want to be that obvious is certainly up to you and a matter of personal style and taste. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 577 Registered: 8-2006 |
George, what a good eye you have! As Bonnie responded, your suggestions will make excellent improvements, though the paintings are already lovely enough to sell -- Bonnie may not get a second shot at them! Bonnie (if you don't mind my using your name as found on your information link -- its easier to type than Whitewatercolor for lazy folks like me), I am truly amazed at the leap in your proficiency over paintings you posted a year or so ago! What have you been drinking, in addition to Ron Ranson tonic? Did all of the DVDs help that much, or is it just hard work and doing so much painting? The two pictures in your last post are wonderful. I do like George's idea of looking for overlap possibilities to improve depth. For instance, you might add a tree to the forward rock in the river picture and silhouette it against the light background; you could also put a similar tree on the near bank of the lake picture and silhouette it against the light water of the lake. You could also put a little larger light receding range of mountains in the distance in the lake picture for the same reason (depth). Your far shore is also a little darker than your near shore; you might reverse that for the same reason George suggested the value change in the fence picture. I won't comment further on them in detail, as George really has the better eye for seeing possibilities for enhancements. Truly lovely work! Bravo! | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 363 Registered: 10-2006 |
These files are almost too small to see. The paintings are full sheet. Too much detail is lost in converting to such small files. | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 362 Registered: 10-2006 |
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Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 361 Registered: 10-2006 |
Excellent! I agree with everything you've said. I tend to be a bit conservative about making the changes when I am under a deadline and I've framed all three of these. I'll bring them back and make the improvements after the show if they don't sell. I quite often do make changes to paintings after observing them framed for a while. The bottom painting was actually painted from a snow scene of the same area. I'm going to post a couple that I haven't framed yet... Thank you so much George. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
First let me say these are very good paintings. They all have strong texture, good color and they show better overall design than most paintings seen in the local art shows. Now for the things that I think could be improved. The Waterfall I like the waterfall itself. You have a skill for painting moving water that most find difficult. As Jack said, your use of hard and soft edges is really good. But, I wish you had taken more time with the detail in the trees and with the formation of the rock face. I know this is in part due to the July 4th deadline, and also in part because your style requires less detail away from the focal point. Having said that it comes off as looking a bit rushed in its execution. You might be able to improve it with a tiny bit of scrubbing here and there, and the addition of a little bit of rich green to adjust the smaller value patterns in the trees. For example, the branch in the upper right corner should look much closer to the viewer than it does. Some added light (done by lifting) for stronger contrast and a bit of a more intense yellow would pull it forward. Also don’t be afraid to push that branch out so that it overlaps the waterfall thereby creating depth in the painting (the principle of overlapping forms). The Stream The water in woodland streams really isn’t blue, but in your style of painting it’s more than acceptable. As I said above you have a knack for painting moving water. I like this painting. My only problem with it is the time of year isn’t clear - I’m guessing spring. Winter would have less green. Summer would have a darker canopy of leaves blocking the light. Fall would have fewer cool yellows. The value shifts in the shadow patterns of the water show lots of light coming from above. That and the cool yellow background suggests early springtime to me. If I’m right about this you might want to push that idea a bit more in the suggestion of light and color. Something like a small streak of bright orange on the trunk of the reddish brown tree (also, it would really contrast well with that blue water) . The Fence This is my favorite. I like strong patterns of light and dark. I think you have a good painting for one of your greeting cards here. My only advice would be to make a better connection between the trees on the right and the tree on the left. The strong color on the tree on the left pulls it forward visually, but the trees on the right are supposed to be closer to the viewer in space. You can fix that problem easily by having the branch from the tree on the right overlap the branches of the tree on the left (again the principle of overlapping forms). | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 360 Registered: 10-2006 |
George. Go ahead, I'd love to hear your thoughts. I can certainly find fault and it is hard to just stop, but I really have to move on. I'd like to see if your criticisms are different than mine. I painted two more on Friday...I may post. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Bonnie, WOW! I wish you had posted these on the texture thread - they are loaded with texture, and would have fit in really well as good examples. The third one is my personal favorite. I seldom like to give my thoughts on paintings on this website because I get very (perhaps overly) picky in my analysis and most people find that extremely annoying. I’ll let you decide. I can keep my lip zipped, or if you like I’ll post my thoughts here, or send them to you via e-mail. Please share your methods with us. I see lots of brush work and some splatter. Did you use any of the other methods discussed over on the texture thread? | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 574 Registered: 8-2006 |
Well done, Whitewatercolor; your use of light and hard and soft edges are spot on! | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 359 Registered: 10-2006 |
Here they are--have at'er.    |
