| Author | Message | ||
  Anonymous Painter Unregistered guest |
Kisha, while I also use multiple brushes on occasion, I don't make them the same. I also don't seem to have a problem polluting colors when I'm using only one brush. I think that's because before I paint any passage, I usually think through what I'm about to paint first. Then I prepare the colors I will want by shifting the wet paint to a porcelain palette where I can pick them up quickly and easily. Btw, I also often use a Niji flat waterbrush as a sort of mini-charger. John Salmon's charger is an ingenious device, but I haven't been able to obtain all the bits & pieces needed (I now have various animal waterfeeders lying about doing nothing at all  ). Just using any clean brush full of water to add water to the belly of the brush with color works just as well, as does using a clean waterbrush the same way. Just hold the painting brush horizontal, and the recharging brush vertical, tuft down, and touch the latter to the belly of the former.  | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 399 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha, Thanks for taking the time to look into things with Calder House. Their explanation certainly sounds reasonable, and I hope it will reassure you, if we caused you any undue concern. Actually, I think the red dots may cause you more stress!  | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 375 Registered: 8-2006 |
I sent Calder House to comment on the discussions on this artforum about the paints being genuine. Thought this would interest the skeptics, or maybe not ...The discussions were so interesting with different point of views on purchasing reasonable price Holbein products in Hong Kong. Taking this opportunity, I would like re-•••••• you that they are geniune Holbein products and 100% made in Japan. The following explain why the price can be cheaper than in the US, UK or Canada: 1. The price that we offered in the e-shop is same as the retail price in Japan with several percent mark-up to cover the exchange rate fluctation and other costs, e.g. Paypal charges. We get a discount on the retail price from our agent in Japan to cover our operation costs and hopefully have some profit. 2. We don't have VAT in HK and the profit tax is relatively low (around 16%) in HK. 3. We only keep minimal stock here in HK and very much depend on our agent in Japan to fulfil customer orders. 4. We don't run a physical shop here in HK so the main costs are maintaining our website and customer servicing. In response to the authenticity of the products that we offered, we have following comments: 1. Counterfeiting is a criminal offence in HK and is not worth to take such chance. 2. The end-users of Holbein products are mostly professional artists and they have very good knowledge (better than we) on the materials they use. The .... is re and a and s and s and ure. This is getting tiresome | ||
Rayjava New member Username: Rayjava Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 |
Hello I am new here and think I would start with a very good tip on streaching paper. There is a device called " The perfect paper streatcher" made during 2 world war by An english artist. It really work! And is a great thing. Go to www.artsupplies.co.uk and read about it. I can really recomend it saves you a bundel of money as you don't have to use the thick paper. Regards Ray | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 410 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks from me, too. I found the dots amusing at first, but it was beginning to get old. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 397 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thanks, Terry, for fixing the dot problem. We were really just having fun at your expense. It was no real problem -- just an annoyance in having to repost the thought in another way! | ||
Terry Intermediate Member Username: Terry Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2006 |
The dreaded dots should be gone now....There was a setting called "prevent user from using spaces to by pass filter" that was turned on to keep spam off board. If spam comes up with setting changed...let me know. | ||
Joanna Intermediate Member Username: Joanna Post Number: 81 Registered: 10-2006 |
I'd heard rumors the HK versions of Holbein were different, marketed to the Chinese market and not as expensive pigments as the Japanese line, but I have absolutely no confirmation of this. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 392 Registered: 8-2006 |
George, the report you cite is well taken, but there were other clear cases of toys with adulterated ingredients, whoever is ultimately at fault. There has to be some reason why Holbeins from Hong Kong are much cheaper than Holbeins purchased elsewhere. Are tariffs perhaps involved? Or are the Japanese pricing their products differently in Hong Kong than in western countries? There was a time when you could find real bargins on authentic items in Hong Kong, but not now. | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 391 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha, I'm not prejudiced against the Chinese, just cautious. I suppose it was your telling us that you got these paints for such a wonderful price that made me suspicious. We all know that you can't get something for nothing, unless it isn't exactly what you thought it way. The example I gave of the Rolex is a case in point. At the same time, if these Hong Kong Holbeins paint as well as Holbeins you have bought in the States or the UK in the past, good for you. You say they came from an "authentic" Japanese address -- how can you be so sure about that? As Gary says, I would be a little cautious about the safety of the ingredients -- don't know how you could check them, but it would be good to err on the side of caution. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha Prices seem good--about the same as Cotman in USA. I don't now how they compare with UK prices. We have such good sources in USA (like Joe's) that I personally would not take the chance with a Hong Kong company. Don't know the availability and pricing in UK so I can't advise. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
I probably shouldn’t take sides on this issue, but I think the Chinese product scare is exaggerated. A report came out yesterday that one of the American toy manufacturers apologized to China for supplying poorly done blueprints. | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 372 Registered: 8-2006 |
Well, Garydoc, it is these kinds of chinese whispers that exacerbate a situation. All of us are aware what the media reports. Let each individual make their own judgment or not as the case may be. The paints I received are comparable to the Holbein products I have bought in the UK before. All I can say is I have no complaints and is the reason for my putting the URL here. | ||
Garydoc Advanced Member Username: Garydoc Post Number: 153 Registered: 8-2006 |
Considering all of the unfavorable reviews and recalls of products coming out of China lately, I don't think you can call it prejudice, Rekha. I am cautious about what types of products that I buy lately, and where they are sourced. Granted that you can't know where ALL of the ingredients come from, but the possibility of adding cheaper lead to titanium white in a paint formula, and not being aware of the inherent danger of the lead exposure is something to be cautious of. Gary | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 371 Registered: 8-2006 |
And the products came from an authentic japanese address. You can't fake Osaka for Hong Kong | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 370 Registered: 8-2006 |
I think that is called prejudice, Jack | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 389 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha, I realize that the genuine product is Japanese. The fear I was expressing was that what you ordered might be illicitly Chinese since the material came from Hong Kong, even if Calder House is "apparently" an agent for Holbein in Hong Kong. I should have said "Hong Kong Holbeins" and "Hong Kong products," since I have no way of knowing whether what you got were illicitly "Chinese" products. I do know that I bought a very nice looking knock off "Rolex" in Hong Kong years ago for $10. Yes, I knew it wasn't the genuine article at the time, but it was fun wearing it back home! | ||
George Unregistered guest |
Must be my odd sense of humor. | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 369 Registered: 8-2006 |
How do you get a favourable response, George, for quoting the hemorrhoidic phrases | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 368 Registered: 8-2006 |
One correction, Jack, Holbein is Japanese, not Chinese | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 386 Registered: 8-2006 |
There are the dreaded red dots again. I think it's the same problem that Marie discovered with one of Eugene's recent posts! My musing had to do with how safe the Chinese Holbeins might be as compared with those you have obtained in the past (with their guarantees and inspections). I'm not sure how well any of our governments are doing with this matter, however! | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 385 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha, with all the discussion in our media about problems with Chinese products, it makes me wonder if there has been any tampering with or counterfeiting of the Holbein products in order to make them available at such favorable prices. I'll be interested to know if they paint equally as well (and ••••••••••• as the Holbein products you have used in the past. | ||
George Unregistered guest |
I’ve not used that company for ordering art materials so I can’t really comment except to say the price sounds great. I love the way they explain a traditional watercolor glaze (its so unpretentious) ---- “a favorable effect of mixing colors comes out when it is painted in piles.” | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 366 Registered: 8-2006 |
This is not an advert. I just received my Holbein gouache and watercolour paints today. For 3 15ml tubes of watercolour I paid just £5 ($10) from this address in Hong Kong. Calder House is apparently an agent for Holbein in Hong Kong. I am very pleased with their fast delivery http://www.calderhouseonline.com/index_ecat.php?cPath=22 I would like to know if you have had the same experience | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Bonnie-- Lanaquarelle CP works with the sort of lifting techniques that don't involve harsh scrubbing. Weting with water and then blotting, or brushing out with clear water--these are the techniques that work very well. Hard scrubbing destroys its surface easily. It also is less rough than arches. The best thing is that it strongly resists backruns and blossoms --the opposite of Fabriano which seems to invite them. | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 251 Registered: 10-2006 |
Thanks for that information Kisha. I will go ahead and order with abandon. I glaze a lot and I also lift and don't have much problem with lifting washes if I use the right brush. The Ranson hake brushes that were recommended on this site do a wonderful job of laying on wash over wash without disturbing what's underneath. To me this site is most valuable for sharing this kind of specific material and technique information. I can't tell you how helpful everyone has been. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 261 Registered: 8-2006 |
Paper that lifts too easily is a minus in my book, because if you do any glazing, the color underneath will lift. I'm more of a direct painter and seldom lift unless I try to correct something, and it seldom works for me. No paper is right or wrong. Select a paper for your style of painting. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 260 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha. I use an ordinary desktop "Swingline" (brand name) stapler. Just open it and staple away, just as you would if you were stapling papers. no kick at all, like you would get using a staple gun. and since the staples are small, they don't ruin the gatorboard. This only works with gatorboard, which is much softer than plywood. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
The easiest to lift by far is Lanaquarelle Cold Press. By a mile. | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 268 Registered: 8-2006 |
" I thought maybe I posted that bookmark before. Sorry-- this old mind is failing!" __Eugene No need for that. I have learnt so much from what you and others contribute that this is insignificant. On the selfish side I would ask that you impart your knowledge to us e.g. I use your method of stapling paper on to the gatorboard after soaking the paper; it works better for me than not soaking at all. Don't your hands jar with the kickback? | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 250 Registered: 10-2006 |
I think I stated that the Strathmore is easy to lift and the Arches and other rough are not so easy. The Fabriano seems to be easier to lift and Eugene is correct, the cold press is a little less rough than Arches. I think that Fabriano hot pressed paper is probably my favorite paper to date for all around use. (I painted six little 5x7 paintings on it today.) I'm going to put in an order for Lana hot and cold and also I think I'll try Joe's sample packs. I ordered some Kilimajaro (sic?) used it all getting ready for a show. I must have liked it because I used it up before I realized it and I had a variety of paper to chose from. I don't know which paintings were painted on which paper after they were framed. So I can't comment specifically on it. I don't want to order a whole bunch until I try some more. I guess I'll get the samples and know more. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 259 Registered: 8-2006 |
Rekha, I thought maybe I posted that bookmark before. Sorry-- this old mind is failing! | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 258 Registered: 8-2006 |
Bonnie's suggestions on stretching are great. I do it the same way except that I find it much easier to use a plain old stapler to attach it to the gatorboard. Don't use a heavy duty staple gun or you'll ruin the board. You can staple it within in 1/8 inch from the edge and you won't waste as much paper as with the tape method. I always used brown tape until I discovered gatorboard. It's so lite weight and the staples are easy to remove. | ||
Raliegh Advanced Member Username: Raliegh Post Number: 103 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, I love that sweet scene. | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 267 Registered: 8-2006 |
"... painting a large sky scene, I don't care about lifting, I want intense colors, I want to know how the paint is going to blend, etc. If I'm painting trees, forests, complex scenery or garden scenes the ability to lift out branches and sticks is a real advantage" __Bonnie Bonnie, you don't say which particular brands of papers give you the effects you describe | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 265 Registered: 8-2006 |
Eugene, I thought this bookmark looked familiar and yes, it was Posted on Thursday, December 28, 2006 - 4:38 pm: | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 249 Registered: 10-2006 |
I've experimented with stretching and not stretching on many surfaces. Here are my experiences. In all instances, I find brown craft paper tape, the kind that you wet the glue on the back (2" wide)to be the best tape to use. You can make plywood stretcher boards by cutting sheets of 1/4 sheet plywood to sizes that are slightly larger than your usual paint sheet sizes and coating it with verithane. I have a whole sheet of plywood cut up. It is heavy and bulky to manipulate and carry around. What I find to be a superior surface is gator board. It is lightweight and durable. I use it for all of my paintings, whether they are stretched or not. I bought a whole sheet from Baird Plastics in Portland Oregon and had my husband cut it slightly larger than half sheet and full sheet watercolor paper. If you are stretching your paper, Eugene gave the instructions. A clean bathtub, soak completely (5 minutes with lukewarm water), drain over tub. Lay flat on gator board. Precut the tape pieces to size. Wet the back of the tape and carefully apply it, overlapping the paper about 1/2 inch on each side. Completely cover all sides. I went through one phase where I stretched every board I have at the same time and always had a stock of prestretched paper. I would then rewet the paper for painting. My next phase was to soak the paper, lay it on the gatorboard, paint the first phase of my painting and then while it was still wet, tape the edges as instructed above. This was definitely superior to rewetting in painting wet on wet. You can get really bright fresh colors that soak into the paper. It works best with 140 lb. D'Arches cold pressed paper. If you stretch, let dry and rewet, 140 lb paper buckles up again and you are trying to paint with ripples. I now don't stretch at all. I just tape the paper to the gatorboard and paint. I use more 300 lb paper. I usually use 300 lb for full sheet cold pressed paintings. The 140 lb works well in smaller sizes, without stretching, if you tape it to the gatorboard, using masking tape and tape all edges completely, don't leave spaces. I do use 140 hot pressed paper for all size paintings. I also use Strathmore Imperial paper for things like painting someone's dog or horse. Its external sizing allows a lot of lifting, it stays flat. It is an easy surface to work with. You cannot get the bright colors and intensity that you can get with some other papers, but you do have good control. I probably use more cold pressed paper than hot pressed, but I really like hot pressed paper. You can keep better color separation, if you have a tendency to have trouble leaving the painting to dry, which I do, you get into less trouble with hot pressed paper. I'll quickly paint several colors with blended edges and they keep moving as they dry and blend more than I'd like with cold pressed paper. Hot pressed paper doesn't blend as well. I have an easier time getting beautiful grays with hot pressed. Cold pressed keeps blending on me and sometimes it goes to mud. Knowing the attributes of the differeent papers is a real advantage. Depending on the subject, style, and size you are painting. If I am painting a large sky scene, I don't care about lifting, I want intense colors, I want to know how the paint is going to blend, etc. If I'm painting trees, forests, complex scenery or garden scenes the ability to lift out branches and sticks is a real advantage. There is so much to talk about regarding papers and stretching, etc., that I'll stop here and if anyone has specific questions, I'd be happy to respond with my experiences. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 257 Registered: 8-2006 |
 I did this one to use as a bookmark. I print them 4-up on 8 1/2 x 11 matte photo paper. I print my name and address and web site on the back. They're cheap give-a-ways and people love them | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 255 Registered: 8-2006 |
I don't think stretching the paper removes much of the sizing if it is done carefully. I soak 140# in a CLEAN tub (no soap film) for 8-10 minutes, and try not to agitate it. Lift carefully by one corner and let excess water drip off. then staple to gator board. Works fine for me--dries drum tight, I can't stand buckling. | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 299 Registered: 8-2006 |
I have never stretched a sheet of paper in my life. It might help, but I have never had the patience for it. | ||
Raliegh Intermediate Member Username: Raliegh Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2006 |
I don't prepare my paper. Thinking the more times a brush goes over the more the fibers are disturbed I don't prewet unless I want a very loose background and then I leave subject white. I use 140# Arches and haven't had any curling. | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 262 Registered: 8-2006 |
Thank you Joseph. I love the way he makes the grids on the gatorboard with pins for value studies, colour chart using masking tape to make grids etc. Really good for the novice | ||
Jcator New member Username: Jcator Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2007 |
Regarding Tips & Personal Tricks, I noticed that Cheap's Joes now has a new page titled "Video Quick Lesson - Tips for the Time-Impaired" http://www.cheapjoes.com/artist_community/cju/joe-quicklessons/joe-quicklessons.asp In Lesson #4: Wetting Watercolor Paper, I'm always amazed at the different techniques for "stretching your watercolor paper" -- seems like no two artist will do it exactly the same way. I would be interested in knowing more tips & techniques that others use to prepare your paper (or surface) for painting. | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 295 Registered: 8-2006 |
A couple of things that help me with hair: * You need a variety of edges, soft and hard, but you'll probably want to lean more toward soft edges. * Always have soft edges around the hairline. Otherwise, your subject will look like he/she is wearing a helmet. * Hair works better for me when I do it wet-in-wet. * Most importantly, keep the light and shadows on the hair consistent with the rest of the figure. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Actually, I HAVE a formula--that's the problem. Thanks for the input, y'all. | ||
Whitewatercolor Senior Member Username: Whitewatercolor Post Number: 244 Registered: 10-2006 |
When faced with the question "how do I paint trees...this way or that" or "how do I paint hair...this way or that" I find that I am stumped. I do not have a formula for painting anything. My formula is to learn various techniques to create contrast, shape, edges, etc., and then approach each painting with the entire arsenal and an open mind. I try to recreate the feel of the hair or the trees. Are they warm or cold, are they rough or smooth? Old or young? Is there a wind or breeze? Are they wet or dry? I experiment and experiment. Every painting is an experiment. Sometimes it works, sometimes I wonder where it came from but ususally I am as surprised by the outcome as anyone else who observes it. I guess that's why I don't aspire to teach. It seems that everyone wants a formula. | ||
Raliegh Intermediate Member Username: Raliegh Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2006 |
Hair is my favorite part, use combination of wet brush and dry. The wet (vary color often) would show the thickest part of the hair. Dry would be the top where loss strains are and then some hints of dry over the top especially around face. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
I'd appreciate any tips pn painting hair in portraits. It always seems my hair is less convincing than the faces. Any tips appreciated. I tend to make long strokes following the strands and go from light to dark washes, but I have a feeling there is a better way. | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 251 Registered: 8-2006 |
I have an obsession about keeping the kolinskys dry. I used the idea from when I was learning to paint chinese brush way. They use a brush stand and their brushes have a string at the non brush end of the handle to hang them upside down. For the smaller brushes I use their method but for larger brushes, I just drill the handle to just fit the pegs. | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 250 Registered: 8-2006 |
Instructions for using masking gum always says “use an old brush”. I disagree. Masking has to be put on carefully and it can’t be done with an old brush. I have two of Cheap Joes Happy stroke riggers that I keep for just masking. I use riggers because the length of the hair allows you to dip into the masking half way without getting it into the heel of the brush where it dries and causes problems. Also, I like Pebeo Drawing Gum best. It’s less sticky and flows easier. Wash brushes with soap and water immediately and they will last forever | ||
Rekha Senior Member Username: Rekha Post Number: 250 Registered: 8-2006 |
Not my personal trick but I thought this watercolour charger was something to think about http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jvsalmon/charger/charger_index.html | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 249 Registered: 8-2006 |
I just found another place for a free web page listing. www.watercolor-online.com | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 293 Registered: 8-2006 |
Using multiple brushes is a terrific thing. I do it all the time. My other trick is that I have a brush with a white handle that I use for softening edges and such. I always know that the white brush contains only water, and I can grab for it in an instant as needed. | ||
Kisha Unregistered guest |
Problems and personal tricks that solve the problem: At least for me---two problems I have when painting are -- 1. Getting the light color wells polluted with dark paint when mixing because the brush I am dipping into the yellow has green on it etc. 2. Adding too much water to a passage when painting in more color. This is invariably caused by trying to prevent "A" by swirling to brush in clean water, then going to the paint then to the paper (even when stopping at the sponge or paper blotter). Solution--a recent discovery--instead of one brush have one in your painting hand and two more identical brushes in your other hand. Let's say you do a blue wash and want to go back and add a streak of burnt sienna. Use a different (but identical brush). You will not have the too much water blossoms. Also use a different brush for the yellows and other lights-- pull them onto the mixing area with a clean brush. Sounds complicated at first but soon becomes second nature. You would think it would slow things down but it greatly speeds things up, allowing you to paint when the paper is still wet wet rather than take time to clean brushes and dry them to the right moisture content. Clean them later when the passage is drying. Let's say I am doing a sky--I use one brush for the blues, one brush for the cloud shadows and one brush for accent colors. This keeps the paint clean, allows for perfect water control, and speeds things up greatly. Once I discovered that this works well, I changed to three copies of three brushes. Robert Simmons Sapphire Oval Wash 1", 3/4", and 1/2". Three each. That's it! nothing else (except a rigger for finishing. |
