| Author | Message | ||
  Bdubbs New member Username: Bdubbs Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 |
If you're looking to try sable, Cheap Joe's Legend brushes are here this week. They've been updated to have better performance. | ||
boo Unregistered guest |
Barb, check out Cheap Joes Royal & Langnickels MAJESTICS . They're the best synthetics I've found. and cheap. I ues mostly the flats, but the rounds are good too. Last week I I bought a set of 3 small rounds & 1/4 " flat, W/N sables on sale at AC MOORE for about $15. they are not labeled series 7 but they are excellent. C Joes naturals are pretty good substitutes for sables, if you are looking for a brush that holds a lot of paint. | ||
Barb Unregistered guest |
Hi, has anyone tried the Silver Brush kolinsky sable brushes? I have a DaVinci Maestro kolinsky in 6 and 8 - they are absolutely wonderful brushes, but can't afford the larger sizes. I noticed that Silver brush has less expensive kolinsky sable brushes. I am sure they won't be as good as the DaVinci, but if they have good spring and point well that would be fine. I also use Grumbacher white synthetic for many years which I really liked, but are worn out. Also Winsor and Newton Golden Sceptre II - synthetic and natural mix have been good brushes with good spring and point, hold fair amount of color. | ||
Nona Unregistered guest |
You know--I seem to have every brush ever recommended on this site and have used oodles of brushes and the one I keep coming back to for my approach is the Robert Simmons White Sable Flat One Stoke in all sizes from 1/2 to 1 1/2 inch--that's what Ipaint with and they are perfect for me--readily available and cheap is simple a lucky break in addition! These were the first synthetics introduced and they are great. | ||
Laurarose Junior Member Username: Laurarose Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2007 |
Im pretty sure that for washes the straight makes more sense. For shading i think it could go either way. Is a bright the same as a shader? I have found that some brands have a bright and others dont but have a "shader". Are these similar....short and stiff ? | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 404 Registered: 8-2006 |
Most folks prefer the straight wash brushes to the angled brushes. It depends on which feels better to you. | ||
Laurarose Junior Member Username: Laurarose Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 |
Is there a difference in using an Angled wash or shader versus straight? | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 401 Registered: 8-2006 |
The Princeton brushes tend to be pretty good, and they're usually reasonably priced. | ||
Laurarose Junior Member Username: Laurarose Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2007 |
I was digging through my scattered hodge podge art supplies yesterday and came across a couple brushes hidden away. Both Princeton Series 6150...im thinking they are white nylon. I have no idea when or why i bought them but does anyone have any experience with Princeton? | ||
Grizrev Senior Member Username: Grizrev Post Number: 370 Registered: 8-2006 |
Just want to emphasize Marie's good advice, especially about not beginning with small brushes (unless you're going to stick with painting postcards). Learn from the beginning to work with large flat brushes as well as rounds, and stick with the largest brush possible until you are forced to change to riggers or small brushes for final details. It might look impossible, but the edge of a good flat brush, even a large one, can paint detail as well as give you wonderful washes, avoiding the overworked look of smaller brushes. | ||
Laurarose New member Username: Laurarose Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2007 |
Thank you so much. That helps. | ||
Joe Intermediate Member Username: Joe Post Number: 77 Registered: 2-2007 |
I use trekell.com brushes. They have served me well and are reasonably priced. I like them so well I have never strayed very far from them. Sables. | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 395 Registered: 8-2006 |
Brushes are a very personal choice. Over time, you'll have to keep trying them until you find out what works for you. Having said that, I'll try to take a stab at the basics. Overall, I would recommend getting a couple of decent size rounds - a number 8 and a number 10 or 12 would be a good start -- and then I would get a 1 1/2" flat. Stay away from small brushes at the beginning --- they tend to make paintings look labored and overworked unless you *really* know what you're doing. As for the hairs on the brush.... this is probably opening a rat's nest. Many people (including myself) like good kolinsky sable rounds. They hold a lot of water, retain their shape, and have a sharp point --- all characteristics that make for a versatile brush. The problem is that they are incredibly expensive in large sizes. Other people prefer synthetics. They are much cheaper than a sable, but they don't hold as much water. I don't know what your budget is like or what kind of painting you do, and those are both factors in the type of brush you choose. If you know of any other watercolorists in your area, ask them if you can try out their brushes. Most folks are happy to oblige. Also, most local art stores are happy to let you try out brushes with clear water before you buy them. They can provide you with paper that will show what kinds of marks the brush can make. The main questions I as myself when I am buying brushes are: 1) What kind of marks does it make? Can I go from a thin to a thick stroke? 2) How much water does it hold? How long can I keep painting before I have to recharge the brush? 3) How does the brush feel in my hand? Is it comfortable? Is it balanced? Do sizes between brands compare # to #? And what is a basic starter line up of brushes. Size wise? Not necessarily. A general rule of thumb is that English and American brushes are sized a bit larger than brushes made in continental Europe. While reading another thread concerning materials the name Royal Langnickel, Majestic series kept coming up. Has anyone used these? Royal Langnickel has a big following among some oil painters. I have never used their brushes for watercolor.} | ||
Laurarose New member Username: Laurarose Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2007 |
I am a novice untrained watercolorist and am very hesitant to buy any brushes. I was at a store this weekend checking out some brands I got from these forums and I was terribly confused. Do sizes between brands compare # to #? And what is a basic starter line up of brushes. Size wise? While reading another thread concerning materials the name Royal Langnickel, Majestic series kept coming up. Has anyone used these? I just want to buy with confidence. | ||
R. Unregistered guest |
My preference in Brushes after 30 years of painting with Kolinsky, squirrel etc is , oddly, Simmons White Sable--the round and one strokes--ep. the 1 1/2" one stroke. These simply make the marks that I like best. | ||
Anon Unregistered guest |
Aesel Art Supply in downtown Dallas has a bin of discontinued 6142's and is selling them for almost nothing. | ||
Joanna Junior Member Username: Joanna Post Number: 22 Registered: 10-2006 |
That's a familiar place with that stone facade and columns. Philadelphia is a great place to grow up if you are interested in art. I went to school at Race and Vine, so on my way in by train (Reading) I passed the Art Academy or whatever it was called on Broad Street. We used to see some great exhibits there. I like your latest Amish picture. I was going nuts yesterday; they opened a branch of the Amish market in Dover in our own smaller town (in a long-closed grocery store 1/2 mile from our house.) I was longing to get sketching but we had to shop for bacon and lettuce! | ||
Eugene Senior Member Username: Eugene Post Number: 308 Registered: 8-2006 |
Joanne, I went to the Philadelphia Museum School od Industrial Art for 4 years. (now the University of the Arts) Broad and Pine. In the late 40's. At that time it was an art school, gave diplomas, not degrees. You left with a pat on the back and hopefully a good portfolio. | ||
Joanna Junior Member Username: Joanna Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2006 |
Eugene, where did you go to school? I went to hs and graduate school in Philly and the art community was VERY active. And Marie, thank you for that link to the Grumbacher brush. I recently threw out my ancient version of this very brush. The design was supposed to be "perfect" for watercolor--scrape out with the chiseled end, flat end for good washes. | ||
Marie Senior Member Username: Marie Post Number: 328 Registered: 8-2006 |
I just googled it. Try http://newbeestores.com/brushes/brushes1980.html. | ||
Sarah Unregistered guest |
I found this board through a web search looking for the Series 6142 Aquarelle Brush by Grumbacher. I realize they are hard to find, but I was wondering if anyone knew of a place that may still have some? Or if anyone here has one they no longer need and wish to sell? Im interested in the 3/4 inch size. If anyone can help me I would appreciate it. Thank you Sarah | ||
Patrice |
What program are you using to edit your photos, Eugene? | ||
Eugene |
Victoria- I'll post some of my work as soon as I take some new digital photos. I don't know how to post the ones I have now (I've tried and the are too big and I'm a computer nerd.) Another problem is that my best work is framed under glass which makes photography difficult. | ||
Eric |
Eugene- Very interesting. Thank you. I love those watercolorists from the past, like Pike and Kautzky. | ||
Victoria |
Eugene, your review of watercolor in the 50's and 60's is very interesting. Guess everything changes except change as the old saying goes. I wish you would post your work more often I love to see it. Victoria | ||
marie |
In keeping with the discussion of how brush choices change over time, I will share this bit of trivia. I am a huge fan of John Singer Sargent's watercolors, and I have an obscure book that has a picture of his watercolor brushes. I will try to describe them as best I can. * Sable round with the handle cut off. It appears to be about a size 10. * Sable filbert, slightly larger than the round. * 3/4" flat with long, black hair -- probably squirrel. The hairs are well worn on one side. * A large french shavers mop -- probably squirrel. The hairs are widest at the tip. * Badger flat with a short handle, probably 1 1/2" * 4 tiny sable rounds -- size 1 or size 2. * Sable rigger. * An awl. | ||
eugene |
Robert - - As I recall, watercolor was alive and well in the 50’s. Though the style was quite different. The Philadelphia Water Color Club is now over 100 years old and had many famous past members including Sargent. ( I went to art school in Philly and looked forward to the PWCC show then held every year at the Academy of Fine Art.) This was near the end of the era of weekly illustrated fiction magazines-- TV was taking over. Many of the illustrations were done in watercolor. I looked forward to John Pike’s work, almost every week in Colliers-- pure, loose, transparent watercolor. When the mags failed, many of the illustrators turned to the fine arts and teaching. They contributed greatly to the acceptance of watercolor. Their style was loose, fresh, transparent. Opaque white was a no no. Photo realism was unheard of. In fact, working from photos was frowned upon. Yes, things have changed. Concerning brushes - - I use squirrels for big loose washes, They hold tons of water but have little spring and are hard to control. They are great for glazing over dry colors because they are so soft they do not lift the underlying pigments. Sables are my favorite all round brushes because they have plenty of spring and hold a lot of water. I also like ox hair for controlled washes. (the flat, longer haired one stroke type) Synthetics, I use because they are cheap and hold a good point for details. In the 50’s not many watercolorists used flats. But I recently took a workshop with Frank Webb and he used big synthetic flats almost exclusively. So the brushes you used depends on your style of painting and what suits your needs best. My style of painting has changed some during all these years. I’m sorry to say that it has become a little tighter. I think some of that is due to age. The young are willing to take more chances. I sometimes look back at my early paintings and wish I could regain some of that fresh, exciting look. But my work still relies on good drawing and fluid transparency | ||
Eric |
Speaking of age, I am reminded of a great quote from Ed Whitney. This was mentioned by Frank Webb in one of his books. "The ignominy of age is decrepitude-the ignominy of youth is ignorance. If you prefer agility and ignorance to decrepitude and wisdom you sentence yourself to misery half your life." | ||
Robert |
Eugene--You really are the elder statesman of this group. What was it like being a watercolor artist in the 50s and 60s--was watercolor art more obscure than now? Have people's tastes changed. Has your own style changed a great deal or have you gotten better within the basic style you had back then. Also, your comment about there being three kinds of brushes--squirrel, sable, and ox hair--makes it easy to explain their relative properties by comparing them by water carrying capicity: Low--------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------High Ox...............................................................................sable........................................squirrel | ||
Eugene |
Brushes are very personal choices. They are the tools of our trade and each of us have different styles and requirements. When I went to art school 58 years ago, (am I really that old?) there were only three kinds of brushes- sable, ox hair and squirrel. Nylon was used for women's stockings and for WW II parachutes. So that’s what I learned with and that’s what I still like best. However, they are expensive and I now buy some synthetics. I don’t like them as well but I’m learning to use them. I guess what I’ m trying to say is-- buy the best you can afford and learn how each behaves. Good brushes are certainly important, but (In my opinion) #1, good paper and #2, good pigments are more important. I may be able to do a fair painting using cheap brushes and student grade pigments but can’t do a good painting on second rate paper. | ||
Robert |
one thing more-- As you can see, they are fairly expensive, so I'd hate to have anyone spend the money and not like them. They are radically less "juicy" than most other brushes. | ||
Robert |
FYI-- Here's what they look like: http://www.jerrysartarama.com/art-supply-stores/online/160 | ||
Robert |
The trick is to a) blot excess water away from brush with a paper towel and b) hold the brush an big angle. The closer to to perpendicular the brush is, the smoother the stroke. This is becasue the ends of the brush hairs jab into the wells of the paper. At an strong angle all that touches the paper is the side of the hair and it doesn't jab into the wells of the paper. Soemtimes I hold my brush at such an angle that my hand is barely 1/2 above the paper. c) You can also blot the brush almost dry and pat the side of it on the paper--I am using this more and more. Go back in with different colors and they mix on the paper. I would suggest getting all three grumbacher aquarelle sabeline #6142--1/2", 3/4" and 1"--they all get equal use with me. Disclaimer--others may hate them----I'm a bit of a contrarian, I suppose. | ||
Eric |
Robert, as usual you're more than generous with information. I appreciate it. The easy achievement of drybrush effects is enough to send me to Michael's immediately to hunt down the Grumbacher 6142. I've been using the back side of cold press paper when I plan on using drybrush effects. Hopefully, I'll be able to use the front side now. (I know, I should just buy rough paper) | ||
Robert |
Very different--they both hold less water than sable but they strike me as very different brushes--off the top of my head: Synthetic flats-- a. Create a well defined sharp edge easily. b. Can be painted on the side and then turned during the stroke to get an effortless varied edge. c. Hairs tend to *splay apart* as the brush begins to run out of water, leaving a split stroke effect that for me is a very irritating "deal breaker" for using synthetic flats in large washes. Oxhair flat-- a. Bulker bristle mass than synthetics. b. harder to create a fine edge. c. harder to control when painting on the side. d. hold less water than the synthetics and this turns out often to be just exactly the right amount. They don't splay when running out of water--this to be is a deciding difference. c. When the brush is held at an angle, great drybrush effects for white water or sparkling sunlight are effortlessly achieved. Painting foliage or white water with an oxhair brush is like shooting fish in a barrel. It is so friendly for landscapes. 6. Great dry brush effects for foliage when pushing brush away ( as in using a push broom). It is also great for patting the flat of the brush on the paper to get random stipple textures. 7. Great for paintlerly effects in general. The above comparison doesn't take into account how once one gets used to an oxhair, it performs is such an expressive, painterly way. As I said earlier, an incredible number of watercolorists in watercolor magazine (from the 80's) said they used oxhair flats (grumbacher #6142 ) as thier main brush. I recently bought a new/old stock 1" grumbacher #6143 kolinsky flat. It doesn't even compare to the 6142 sabeline flat. | ||
Eric |
Robert and Eugene- How do the oxhair brushes (flats) compare to a synthetic flat brush? I'm using the Cheap Joe's Golden Fleece brushes. I paint a lot on wet paper saturated on the front and back. Robert, thanks for the Robert Wade Watercolor Workshop video recommendation. I'm getting a lot out of it. | ||
Robert |
Ah, Eugene, a compadre! If your brushes have green handles they are undoubtedly Grumbacher aquarelle sabeline #6142. Michael's crafts stores stock these, BTW. | ||
Eugene |
Yes Robert. I use ox hair brushes. I have an old ! inch and a 3/4 inch that I really treasure. Don't even know the brand names but they do all that you say they do! | ||
Robert |
I *have* been reading etc.... sorry for the lack of proofing... | ||
Robert |
I been rereading old watercolor magazines and also instructions books from the '80's and have noticed quite a sizable portion of artists relyed on ox hair (sabeline) brushes. You don't see them mentioned that much anymore. I like them because they don't hold a lot of water and this allows you to to go into wet passages with a dryer brush, allows for more stiking drybrush effects, allows for less bottom bead at the bottom of a wash etc. I have noticed that rather than welcome a brush overloaded with liquid (as w/ a Kolinsky) it often presents a greater handling problem. The only ox hair brushes I know of still on the market are the Skipper big wash brush, offered by cheap joes, and the Grumbacher aquarelle #6142 sabeline , available in 1/2", 3/4", and 1". I keep going back to these grumbacher aquarelles--got my first one in '85 and it still is as good as the day I bought it! Anyone else use these or other oxhair brushes? | ||
Victoria |
And isn't that frustrating. You don't have any idea where to go to replace them when they begin to wear out. Sigh. Victoria | ||
tachee |
...and then I have these 'no name' brushes that I would guard with my life. | ||
Robert |
The Robert Simmons White Sable is all nylon. As I recall, it was the first syhthetic watercolor brush on the market. Still great. | ||
marie |
I believe I found my Princeton flat at a local school store, but I have seen them at other stores around town. The only number on it is "4050FW." It has a long, flat red handle and golden colored bristles. The handle is especially nice. The length allows me good arm motion, and the flatness keep the weight down so that it balances well. I think it's all synthetic, and I wish it held a little more water. And, yes, the WN #16 is a real joy to use. I found mine in the sale bin at Pearl when I first started doing watercolor. I paid an embarrassingly tiny amount for it, and didn't realize for a long time what I really fine brush I had. | ||
Raliegh |
Marie, where did you find your Princton 1 1/2 flat? It's interesting to find the blends being a popular brush here. I still have WN #16 that my 1st w/c workshop instructor told us to invest in years ago. It still has a good point. | ||
marie |
I use #10 and #12 kolinsky rounds all the time. I like the balance and feel of the W/N Series 7's, but I find that they don't hold up well. The hairs start to fall out after a few months. Recently, I have started using the daVinci Maestro series, and so far I am extremely pleased. They have nice points and are durable. I also will generally use one of several large brushes, depending on the task. My size 16 W/N Series 707 sable is terrific. Another favorite is a CJAS size 38 round Tsunami, which is some sort of synthetic blend. It's probably my favorite wash brush. When I want a large flat, I usually reach for my Princeton 1 1/2 flat. I keep a couple of smaller sable rounds around, usually a #8 and #6. I don't think I have ever used anything smaller than a #6, and I use the #6 very sparingly --usually just for final touches on eyes and hands and such. | ||
Eugene |
I agree with Robert. I have some of Rosemary's kolinskys and like them. But more and more I am using synthetics or blends. I think you must learn by trial and error to find the brush that is right for your style of painting. I'll be leaving the discussion group for a while-- we're moving and the computer will be shutdown for a few days. But I'll be back when things have calmed down and back to normal. | ||
Robert |
My Rosemany #12 designer round (ultra pointed) kolinsky is a wonderful brush but I don't use it a lot--I'm starting to like brushes that hold less water. The brushes I most use (I have lots but like most artists, use a select few) are: Robert Simmons White Sable Round #14 --main brush Grumbacher sabeline (ox Hair) #6142 flat 3/4" | ||
Raliegh |
JFettingis site suggests about 15 different types and size brushes, what would be your ideal brush set? And previously mentioned rosemaryand co.com, how are these holding up for those who have them? |
